Conservatives moaning about being legally and peacefully ousted from power after they failed to govern in a bipartisan manner, need to consider the alternatives before they call the actions of the Bloc, NDP, and Liberals “undemocratic”.
1) Another election. $300,000,000 to possibly change nothing. After the October 14 vote, how would you like to vote again on January 14th? This country isn’t a blog awards. It isn’t an online poll. It’s Canada, and our general election determined that more Canadian voters support Duceppe, Layton, and Dion than they do Harper.
2) Take over Pearson airport until you get your way, and cripple local airlines.
3) Storm the Hill. Or just leave it and hope the problems go away.
4) Vote with Harper, even if he guts minority parties and Canadian values, fails to stimulate the economy and save our environment, and let Conservatives continue to call the Liberals “weak” for abstaining from an early election.
This is what happens when a bully pushes around too many people at once. The bullied finally realize that they are more powerful than the bullier, and push back! Hard!
The coalition has a rally Thursday. The Conservatives chose Saturday. Let’s see who shows up in bigger numbers. I’m not putting my money on the people whose fringe members call protesters “dirty hippies”.
And speaking of rallies, if you tag your Twitter tweets with #canadarally, Stephen Taylor’s RallyforCanada.ca page displays them, so you can send messages directly to the Conservative-brainwashed.
The SFL sent this message out for support of the coalition:
There will be a Rally on Thursday, December 4th at 7:00 pm in the
Education Auditorium to show support for the Coalition government that
will get us through this economic crisis. Please attend!
For more information on the event, please respond to this email or
contact Dave Winter at the Canadian Labour Congress at 536-7703. For
more information on the Coalition check out the following website:Rally for a coalition government
Where:
Parliament Hill
When:
December 4, noon
More info:
613.560.5457
Rallies also planned for:
Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, St. John’s, Halifax, Charlottetown, Moncton
ADDED: Impolitical has more thoughts, as does IP.
–
Hat tip to WMTC who rightly laments at our education system, and how unprepared most Canadians are for a mature coalition government, or understanding why it’s better than another election.
And still some want to pay another $300,000,000 rather than watch politicians work out their differences.
And a new blog takes stock of the ProgressiveBloggers.ca reaction to the coalition.
@hotmail.com
![[EFC Blue Ribbon - Free Speech Online]](http://www.efc.ca/images/efcfreet.gif)
da wolfe | 02-Dec-08 at 10:11 am | Permalink
It’s constitutional but I wouldn’t call it democratic – I’m guessing there are a lot of Liberal and even NDP voters who did so on the assumption that they wouldn’t see Layton, Dion, and Duceppe shaking hands.
I’m just stunned by how easy it is for you guys to legitimize the Bloc.
What’s good for progressives is good for Canada. It’s a freaking truism. Did you see my post? – I looked through around 150 active blogs linked at proggressivebloggers.ca. I found one that seriously thought about what it means for Canada to work with the Bloc like this. I guess we’ll see what Canadians think about it.
da wolfe | 02-Dec-08 at 10:16 am | Permalink
Oh, you did see. A new blog that doesn’t exactly know what he’s doing. (blogging FAIL!)
Treehugger | 02-Dec-08 at 10:24 am | Permalink
This coalition isn’t democratic Da Wolfe, and Saskboy, I don’t know where you come up with the $300,000,000 price tag for an election but it will be chump change compared to all the goodies that the Bloc will insist upon to prop the government up. Coalitions are a breeding ground for corruption and back room deals. Mark my words. :)
Saskboy | 02-Dec-08 at 10:55 am | Permalink
da Wolfe, Harper is working with the Bloc up to this point. If not them, then the Liberals or NDP. I’m happier seeing the Liberals act as an opposition to destructive policy. The Bloc are going to be happier to have eastern politicians in charge, so they’ll support the coalition until 2010, and maybe later if separation isn’t an option in the polls.
Treehugger, it’s democratic. It’s what progressives have been calling for for quite some time. It’s the result of democratically elected representatives setting aside their differences for the good of the country. It’s a fine thing to see.
What did the last election cost us? $300M is the generally accepted figure I thought.
Paul MacDonald | 02-Dec-08 at 10:59 am | Permalink
If you need the Bloc to prop you up, is it worth being propped? They have the veto on any legislation.
How quickly the standards disappear when one is hungry for power.
Saskboy | 02-Dec-08 at 11:14 am | Permalink
Paul, funny you should say that, since you must realize that Harper has been propped up by the Bloc the last 2 months, and prior to that as well?
Paul MacDonald | 02-Dec-08 at 11:26 am | Permalink
Really? See, I thought that Harper managed to stay in power because the Liberal party was afraid to pull the trigger and abstained from every confidence vote up until September.
If the Bloc does not vote with this coalition, the coalition falls, period. The NDP and the Liberals have fewer seats than the Conservatives. So, that means every piece of legislation goes through Duceppe. It’s not propping up, it’s giving the keys to the kingdom to people who wish the kingdom to fail.
Surely, you can see this.
Andrew Sutherland | 02-Dec-08 at 11:37 am | Permalink
The Bloc MP’s were elected by Canadians who live in Quebec. They have just as much say in Parliament as the Conservative, Liberal, NDP, and the Independent MP’s. Even if you don’t agree with their views, there are many Canadians who do. If the MP’s of the Opposition feel that it is in the best interest of Canada to form a coalition, then they have every right to do so. To call it undemocratic or unconstitutional is false. On the contrary, the Opposition is doing what they are supposed to. They feel their voice is not being heard (and rightly so in my opinion), so they are pushing back. It would be undemocratic to pass Harper’s economic policy without input from the Opposition.
Billy Jack | 02-Dec-08 at 11:47 am | Permalink
Andrew, you are deluding yourself. We are dealing with separatists here and they are going to look out for Quebec…period.
I just don’t understand how anyone can justify what is going on considering how poorly the Libs did last election. Canadians obviously wanted Harper back or they wouldn’t have given him a strengthened minority. And it’s not about the economy; everyone knows it was the notion of reduced entitlements taht set this off. I wonder how the election would have turned out if Lib/NDP/BQ supporters knew they were voting for a coalition?
As much as some of you might be happy with this arrangement, I predict dire consequeneces including a re-emergence of western separatism. I hope you think it’s worth it, because I don’t.
Saskboy, thanks for letting me post. Cheers!
Saskboy | 02-Dec-08 at 12:07 pm | Permalink
“afraid to pull the trigger”? First Conservatives complain that Dion is “weak”, then they complain when he’s “coup”ing. Give me a break, please.
Saskboy | 02-Dec-08 at 12:08 pm | Permalink
Billy, I thought this was going to bring Quebec Separatism? Why would the West get out if Quebec leaves first? Both won’t happen simultaneously.
Paul MacDonald | 02-Dec-08 at 12:13 pm | Permalink
Oh, I forgot that I’m supposed to be in lock step with other conservatives. Fact is, and you know this, the Liberals abstained from every confidence vote during the last session. Then, after the votes, they would bitch about Harper being a bully.
I’ll have to check the rules, but the 3 weasels can’t form a government without being asked to form one.
I have no idea why you are enamoured with being in bed with the Bloc, but whatever. You’ll find that power at any price might be more that you can afford.
Saskboy | 02-Dec-08 at 12:59 pm | Permalink
If there were more principled Conservatives like Bill Casey, and party discipline wasn’t what it is, then there could be enough Conservatives to join the coalition too. There’s nothing stopping the Conservatives from forming their own coalition now to stop the progressive one.
Oh, and check this out
http://www.voteforenvironment.ca/harper-proposed-coalition-bloc-quebecois-2004
Paul MacDonald | 02-Dec-08 at 1:13 pm | Permalink
Here’s the subtle difference: Had Harper pulled off a coalition with the NDP and the Bloc, I would have abandoned the party. I put principle before party. The left seems to be putting power before principle.
Billy Jack | 02-Dec-08 at 1:22 pm | Permalink
Saskboy, I doubt very much that Quebec would separate while their BQ is in tandem with the Lib/NDP coalition. The gravy train would be too hard to resist.
If the NDP in particular target’s the oil sands in Alberta and Saskatchewan, that’s were separatism would start. And I would not look forward to that.
George | 02-Dec-08 at 2:34 pm | Permalink
I am amused by how many bloggers are taking up this fight with pure speculation. Let’s look at some global facts on coalition governments shall we.
Please take the time to Google the HDI(Human Development Index) and Democracy Index of countries and compare that with current or recent coalition governments in power. It is striking that Canada is one of the few countries that receives marks near the top of the ranks without having a coalition. Maybe we could get back to the top by having one of our own.
Brian | 02-Dec-08 at 2:41 pm | Permalink
“If there were more principled Conservatives like Bill Casey”
Saskboy, can you elaborate on what you found to be so principled about Bill Casey. Bill Casey’s pet issue was with the Atlantic Accord which attempted to increase the monetary take from OFFSHORE OIL drilling. When Greens cheerlead for Bill Casey, sometimes I wonder how they rationalize this stance against the need for cleaner energy solutions.
Perhaps if Casey had chosen a different hill to die on, I might agree with you.
Saskboy | 02-Dec-08 at 2:54 pm | Permalink
I do too Bill, but that’s what Krydor and some other Conservatives would have us fear by working with the Bloc.
Brian, even oil grubbers can be principled. He may have chosen a bad hill to die on, as you say, but so too did this coalition by standing up for party funding and economic (and not environmental) stimulus.
Hunny | 02-Dec-08 at 4:01 pm | Permalink
Isn’t that the same Stephen Harper who proposed in a letter to the Governor General in 2004 that the Conservatives form a government with the Bloc and the NDP if the Martin government were defeated? How quickly values change…
[Saskboy adds: Yes http://www.voteforenvironment.ca/harper-proposed-coalition-bloc-quebecois-2004 ]
Zach Bell | 02-Dec-08 at 7:36 pm | Permalink
Even juicier than that is the fact that the letter sent in 2004 also included the signatures of Jack Layton and none other than Gilles Duceppe.
Harper stood in the house today and said that if the liberals wanted to form a coalition with separatists, he should have to take the issue to the people in an election. Why didn’t Harper have to do the same thing when he was willing to take down the 3 month old Martin Liberal minority government in 2004?
Hahhahahahaha…I might not be a supporter of any of the parties in parliament (neither the greens) but I think this is hilarious. It’s a cage full of buffoons flinging crap at each other.
Paul MacDonald | 02-Dec-08 at 9:43 pm | Permalink
Saskboy,
The Bloc has only one goal: separation. If they can bleed the ROC dry in the meantime, they will. Do you actually think they are interested in anything else?
I remember when I was in my 20’s and I abandoned the PC party because they abandoned their principles. I am flummoxed, and I mean this, that anyone would actually abandon their principles to JOIN a coalition.
Have fun, because if this works, there will not be a workable government for a number of years.
LeenieJ. | 03-Dec-08 at 12:38 am | Permalink
i’m just glad we actually have an alternative to any govt.
the current minority govt formed from elected MP
LeenieJ. | 03-Dec-08 at 12:47 am | Permalink
yikes; pressed “return” ’stead of some other key like “Shift” in the dark here…
to finish:
the current configuration of minority govt formed from its COALITION of elected MPs has lost the confidence of the House which is actually responsible for forming our govt.
so what’s the solution to maintain “Peace, Order, and Good Government?”
it’s a no-brainer. some other configuration (like another Coalition) has to fill the void of governance. my vote in October was part of that vast “socialist” conspiracy that keeps Stephe up at night.
unfortunately, independent voters like myself have to work w/the current system; even more unfortunate for the Cons is that i vote with my eyes open.
donna | 03-Dec-08 at 2:13 pm | Permalink
re: the separatists
If you are so concerned about the Bloc propping government up, then you should be emailing your MP and GG to change federal political party regulations, ie. must have presence in a minimum of 5 provinces, or something like that.
Until that happens, and while the Bloc is a federal party, this point is moot. Deal with it.
Davood Hersh | 03-Dec-08 at 5:50 pm | Permalink
grow up, some things need time to understand. Your complaining makes you look young and foolish
Work harder and learn.
Saskboy | 03-Dec-08 at 5:55 pm | Permalink
Davood, your comment makes you look foolish. Try harder to convey your meaning and why you think that way or you will remain uninteresting.