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	<title>Comments on: The Arts Don&#8217;t Do Anything For Canada</title>
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	<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/</link>
	<description>News, Insights, and Humour</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: saskboy1</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104454</link>
		<dc:creator>saskboy1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 01:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104454</guid>
		<description>"BUT THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THIS BILL."

As with any ministry, it's the minister that is ultimately responsible for the actions of the department. That's what's so shocking about this bill, is that it doesn't even attempt to create a non-partisan, at arm's length division for doling out funding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;BUT THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THIS BILL.&#8221;</p>
<p>As with any ministry, it&#8217;s the minister that is ultimately responsible for the actions of the department. That&#8217;s what&#8217;s so shocking about this bill, is that it doesn&#8217;t even attempt to create a non-partisan, at arm&#8217;s length division for doling out funding.</p>
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		<title>By: Wandering Coyote</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104443</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandering Coyote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 00:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104443</guid>
		<description>Ooooookaaaaaaay....

Here is an actual quote from the ACTUAL BILL C-10 (the current one; not the ghosts of C-10s past...)

Uh, before I forget, link &lt;a href="http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&#38;Parl=39&#38;Ses=2&#38;Mode=1&#38;Pub=Bill&#38;Doc=C-10_3&#38;File=65" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.  Scroll down to subsection 125.4.

"(16) Subsection (3) applies in respect of film or video productions in respect of which certificates are issued by the Minister of Canadian Heritage after December 20, 2002, except that, in respect of those film or video productions in respect of which certificates are issued &lt;b&gt;by the Minister of Canadian Heritage&lt;/b&gt; before 2004, the definition “Canadian film or video production certificate” in subsection 125.4(1) of the Act, as enacted by subsection (3), is to be read as follows:
		
“Canadian film or video production certificate” means a certificate issued in respect of a production by &lt;b&gt;the Minister of Canadian Heritage&lt;/b&gt;
		
(a) certifying that the production is a Canadian film or video production in respect of which that Minister is satisfied that
		
(i) except where the production is a treaty co-production (as defined by regulation), an acceptable share of revenues from the exploitation of the production in non-Canadian markets is, under the terms of any agreement, retained by
		
(A) a qualified corporation that owns or owned an interest in, or for civil law a right in, the production,
		
(B) a prescribed taxable Canadian corporation related to the qualified corporation, or
		
(C) any combination of corporations described in clause (A) or (B), and
		
(ii) public financial support of the production would not be contrary to public policy; and
		
(b) estimating amounts relevant for the purpose of determining the amount deemed under subsection (3) to have been paid in respect of the production.

Blah x3.

No mention of CAVCO, though I realize in practice that the minister probably isn't going to review everything him/herself personally.  &lt;b&gt;BUT THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THIS BILL&lt;/b&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooooookaaaaaaay&#8230;.</p>
<p>Here is an actual quote from the ACTUAL BILL C-10 (the current one; not the ghosts of C-10s past&#8230;)</p>
<p>Uh, before I forget, link <a href="http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&amp;Parl=39&amp;Ses=2&amp;Mode=1&amp;Pub=Bill&amp;Doc=C-10_3&amp;File=65" rel="nofollow">here</a>.  Scroll down to subsection 125.4.</p>
<p>&#8220;(16) Subsection (3) applies in respect of film or video productions in respect of which certificates are issued by the Minister of Canadian Heritage after December 20, 2002, except that, in respect of those film or video productions in respect of which certificates are issued <b>by the Minister of Canadian Heritage</b> before 2004, the definition “Canadian film or video production certificate” in subsection 125.4(1) of the Act, as enacted by subsection (3), is to be read as follows:</p>
<p>“Canadian film or video production certificate” means a certificate issued in respect of a production by <b>the Minister of Canadian Heritage</b></p>
<p>(a) certifying that the production is a Canadian film or video production in respect of which that Minister is satisfied that</p>
<p>(i) except where the production is a treaty co-production (as defined by regulation), an acceptable share of revenues from the exploitation of the production in non-Canadian markets is, under the terms of any agreement, retained by</p>
<p>(A) a qualified corporation that owns or owned an interest in, or for civil law a right in, the production,</p>
<p>(B) a prescribed taxable Canadian corporation related to the qualified corporation, or</p>
<p>(C) any combination of corporations described in clause (A) or (B), and</p>
<p>(ii) public financial support of the production would not be contrary to public policy; and</p>
<p>(b) estimating amounts relevant for the purpose of determining the amount deemed under subsection (3) to have been paid in respect of the production.</p>
<p>Blah x3.</p>
<p>No mention of CAVCO, though I realize in practice that the minister probably isn&#8217;t going to review everything him/herself personally.  <b>BUT THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THIS BILL</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: Louise</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104424</link>
		<dc:creator>Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104424</guid>
		<description>Read the whole thing, my dear Coyote.  This is how the 
"Minister" does things: "Mr. Soucy said that &lt;b&gt;a panel&lt;/b&gt; set up by CAVCO and the Department of Justice would review content. CAVCO would have the final say based on the panel's recommendations."  (CAVCO = Canadian Audio-Visual Certification Office)  That is not "the minister", as in an individual person, elected or otherwise.  That is an office, an agency, staffed with civil servants. If you have ever applied for a grant from any funder, you must know that all decisions are made by a group, duly appointed and authorized by the agency or individual who provides the money.  And I repeat, no funder ever agrees to every application for funds.  In fact, most get turned down.  Nice try.  But don't let that stop you from whining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read the whole thing, my dear Coyote.  This is how the<br />
&#8220;Minister&#8221; does things: &#8220;Mr. Soucy said that <b>a panel</b> set up by CAVCO and the Department of Justice would review content. CAVCO would have the final say based on the panel&#8217;s recommendations.&#8221;  (CAVCO = Canadian Audio-Visual Certification Office)  That is not &#8220;the minister&#8221;, as in an individual person, elected or otherwise.  That is an office, an agency, staffed with civil servants. If you have ever applied for a grant from any funder, you must know that all decisions are made by a group, duly appointed and authorized by the agency or individual who provides the money.  And I repeat, no funder ever agrees to every application for funds.  In fact, most get turned down.  Nice try.  But don&#8217;t let that stop you from whining.</p>
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		<title>By: Saskboy</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104422</link>
		<dc:creator>Saskboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104422</guid>
		<description>"You’ve summed up what’s wrong with Canadian arts - all anti-American all the time"

That's complete BS. Because something doesn't trumpet the praises of America while they talk about Saskatchewan grain elevators, they are anti-American? I see you are familiar with hyperbole, and how to use it when BS'ing someone.

"You, and now Coyote, want to convince yourselves that government is approving all creative products and thereby acting as censors."
So now if a single politician [yes the bill says the Minister of Heritage] feels squeamish about a proposed film, they can kill the government funding. That's not hyperbole, and it is censorship.

"There is nothing wrong with grants to cultural organizations or to individuals wishing to create something. I never said that and never will."

Yes you have said that. You say frequently, and in this discussion even, about killing Canada's best cultural and information media [aside from the Internet] -- the CBC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You’ve summed up what’s wrong with Canadian arts - all anti-American all the time&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s complete BS. Because something doesn&#8217;t trumpet the praises of America while they talk about Saskatchewan grain elevators, they are anti-American? I see you are familiar with hyperbole, and how to use it when BS&#8217;ing someone.</p>
<p>&#8220;You, and now Coyote, want to convince yourselves that government is approving all creative products and thereby acting as censors.&#8221;<br />
So now if a single politician [yes the bill says the Minister of Heritage] feels squeamish about a proposed film, they can kill the government funding. That&#8217;s not hyperbole, and it is censorship.</p>
<p>&#8220;There is nothing wrong with grants to cultural organizations or to individuals wishing to create something. I never said that and never will.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes you have said that. You say frequently, and in this discussion even, about killing Canada&#8217;s best cultural and information media [aside from the Internet] &#8212; the CBC.</p>
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		<title>By: Wandering Coyote</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104419</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandering Coyote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104419</guid>
		<description>Sask Boy: Ah!  Thanks for doing that bit of research for me... Silly me, I assumed C-10 would refer to ONE bill, not several as I found out for myself just now.  There was a C-10 in 1994 and 1999 as well, both on totally different issues.  Way to confuse the issue, eh?

Oh yes...I do recall Mr. Harper did make an unelected official or two into ministers of something or others!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sask Boy: Ah!  Thanks for doing that bit of research for me&#8230; Silly me, I assumed C-10 would refer to ONE bill, not several as I found out for myself just now.  There was a C-10 in 1994 and 1999 as well, both on totally different issues.  Way to confuse the issue, eh?</p>
<p>Oh yes&#8230;I do recall Mr. Harper did make an unelected official or two into ministers of something or others!</p>
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		<title>By: Saskboy</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104411</link>
		<dc:creator>Saskboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104411</guid>
		<description>3rd Session, 37th Parliament,
52-53 Elizabeth II, 2004

That's why C-10 in the link isn't the right one :-) The link oddly enough did start to work again, I don't know why it went down.

And yes, they have been accused of sneaking this one in the back door as an amendment to the bill.

"And where did you get the idea that only “one elected official” is going to be making these decisions?"
Yeah? That's a pretty generous statement, given that Ministers don't even have to be elected officials. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3rd Session, 37th Parliament,<br />
52-53 Elizabeth II, 2004</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why C-10 in the link isn&#8217;t the right one :-) The link oddly enough did start to work again, I don&#8217;t know why it went down.</p>
<p>And yes, they have been accused of sneaking this one in the back door as an amendment to the bill.</p>
<p>&#8220;And where did you get the idea that only “one elected official” is going to be making these decisions?&#8221;<br />
Yeah? That&#8217;s a pretty generous statement, given that Ministers don&#8217;t even have to be elected officials. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Wandering Coyote</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104395</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandering Coyote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104395</guid>
		<description>Louise:

“Bill C-10, currently at third reading in the Senate, contains an amendment to the Income Tax Act which would allow the Minister of Canadian Heritage to deny eligibility to tax credits of productions determined to be contrary to public policy,” Charles Drouin, spokesman for Canadian Heritage said in a statement.

The quote is from this Globe and Mail article &lt;a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080228.wheritage28/BNStory/Entertainment/home" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Louise:</p>
<p>“Bill C-10, currently at third reading in the Senate, contains an amendment to the Income Tax Act which would allow the Minister of Canadian Heritage to deny eligibility to tax credits of productions determined to be contrary to public policy,” Charles Drouin, spokesman for Canadian Heritage said in a statement.</p>
<p>The quote is from this Globe and Mail article <a href="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080228.wheritage28/BNStory/Entertainment/home" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Louise</title>
		<link>http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104375</link>
		<dc:creator>Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 17:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abandonedstuff.com/2008/03/01/the-arts-dont-do-anything-for-canada/#comment-104375</guid>
		<description>And where did you get the idea that only "one elected official" is going to be making these decisions?  If you don't know how to make a link, at the very least you should provide a quote and identify your source by name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And where did you get the idea that only &#8220;one elected official&#8221; is going to be making these decisions?  If you don&#8217;t know how to make a link, at the very least you should provide a quote and identify your source by name.</p>
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